X-Git-Url: http://unremediatedgender.space/source?p=Ultimately_Untrue_Thought.git;a=blobdiff_plain;f=notes%2Fsexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-notes.md;h=293aa2686eb332f5cfbd1744be763b25ad542f3d;hp=475d91754003b3c961abb3b97ec17f070402846b;hb=6968b938c932c906a1630dbb1e74456ebf9ce38f;hpb=34db4fbb9d916bf0be12646e631844b3aa442905 diff --git a/notes/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-notes.md b/notes/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-notes.md index 475d917..293aa26 100644 --- a/notes/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-notes.md +++ b/notes/sexual-dimorphism-in-the-sequences-notes.md @@ -1,70 +1,90 @@ -Marketing— +Sections I should be able to easily make progress-per-minute on— +* Ideology is not the Movement +* Dr. Will Powers +* I Don't Do Policy +* Cara's Egregore +* Scott Alexander Understands Language +* Moral Error and Moral Disagreement -To LW— -_(content warning sexism)_ -_(content warning transphobia)_ -_(content warning too much information about weird fetishes)_ -_(content warning WTF did I just read)_ +Points to work in— -(February 2021, [TODO] words) +* wipe culturally defined values: https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/BkkwXtaTf5LvbA6HB/moral-error-and-moral-disagreement (this might have to go after Failed-Utopia #4-2) +* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LRKXuxLrnxx3nSESv/should-ethicists-be-inside-or-outside-a-profession "Anyone who gives a part of themselves to a profession discovers a sense of beauty in it." same thing with an ideology; http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2017/03/dreaming-of-political-bayescraft/ +* the moment in October 2016 when I switched sides http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2016/10/late-onset/ http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2017/03/brand-rust/ +https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/jNAAZ9XNyt82CXosr/mirrors-and-paintings ----- +Terminology to explain before use— +* Singularity/paperclip +* "non-exclusively androphilic" / nonhomosexual -On Twitter— +* not a theory of trans men -WTF transphobic garbage did I just read?? Too bad Yudkowsky can't control how creepy randos on the internet interpret his work ... +* [the autogynephilic analogue of romantic love](/papers/lawrence-becoming_what_we_love.pdf) ------ +(Picture me playing Hermione Granger in a post-Singularity [holonovel](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Holo-novel_program) adaptation of _Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality_ (Emma Watson having charged me [the standard licensing fee](/2019/Dec/comp/) to use a copy of her body for the occasion): "[We can do anything if we](https://www.hpmor.com/chapter/30) exert arbitrarily large amounts of [interpretive labor](https://acesounderglass.com/2015/06/09/interpretive-labor/)!") -To SneerClub— +* my vocabulary is trained on the robot cult -Hi SneerClub! I noticed that you've enjoyed some of my [previous](https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/fw9cng/the_lgbt_activist_machinery_instead_adapted/) [work](https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/61t94y/rationalist_tries_justifying_their_transphobia_by/), so I thought I would go ahead and proactively share this one with you, because (I'm guessing) it probably checks a lot of the boxes for top sneerable content: it's got Yudkowsky hero-worship, _and_ sexism (as many of you would define that), _and_ transphobia (as many of you would define that), _and_ weird sex stuff! +Aren't those trans women going to be _embarrrassed_ after the Singularity, when telepathy tech makes everything obvious -(From _my_ perspective, I'm pouring my heart out about the most important thing in my life, but if someone else with a different perspective would only sneer, then I can only hope to have been—if only for a moment, as part of a subroutine in the optimal sneer computation—_understood_. And for that moment, I am grateful.) +like the time I snuck a copy of _Men Trapped in Men's Bodies: Narratives of Autogynephilic Transsexualism_ into the [MIRI](https://intelligence.org/) office library. (It seemed like something Harry Potter-Evans-Verres would do—and ominously, I noticed, not like something Hermione Granger would do.) ----- +If I sound angry, it's because I actually _do_ feel a lot of anger, but I wish I knew how to more reliably convey its target. Some trans people who see my writing tend to assume I'm self-hating, suffering from false consciousness, that my pious appeals to objectivity and reason are [just a facade](https://sinceriously.fyi/false-faces/) concealing my collaboration with a cissexist social order, that I'm in cowardly thrall to scapegoating instincts: "I'm one of the good, compliant ones—not one of those weird bad trans people who will demand their rights! _They're_ the witches, not me; burn them, not me!" -B.F. on JKR (https://www.facebook.com/duncan.sabien/posts/3883966591638029?comment_id=3884054068295948&reply_comment_id=3884243454943676): -> I am very glad that I don't have anyone with opinions similar to hers in my immediate vicinity, because I am pretty sure that if I did, my brain would constantly be running a scared loop in any social interactions with them. [...] I think it's important that people can write essays that are as far outside my personal Overton window as hers is outside it (because sometimes they're correct and I should update, even though I don't believe this is an instance of that) +I have [no grounds to fault anyone for not taking my self-report as unquestionable](/2016/Sep/psychology-is-about-invalidating-peoples-identities/)—the urge to scapegoat and submit to the dominant player is definitely a thing—but I really think this is reading me wrong? +[AGP is used as a weapon, but I think it's an actual claim] ------ +https://sinceriously.fyi/intersex-brains-and-conceptual-warfare/ + +I'm not at war with trans _people_: open, creative, brilliant people who are just like me—I want to believe that even the natal females are "just like me" in some relevant abstract sense—but who read different books in a different order. I'm at war with an _ideology_ which I think is making a lot of philosophical and empirical claims that I think are _false_. + + +Autogynephilia, as a phenomenon, is _absurdly common_ relative to the amount of cultural awareness of it _as_ a phenomenon. ([An analogy someone made on /r/GenderCriticalGuys just before it got banned](https://web.archive.org/web/20200705203105if_/https://reddit.com/r/GenderCriticalGuys/comments/hhcs34/autogynephilic_male_here_big_rant_about_denial_of/): imagine living in a Society where people _were_ gay at the same rates as in our own, but the _concept_ of homosexuality didn't exist—and was [actively suppressed whenever someone tried to point it out](/2017/Jan/if-the-gay-community-were-like-the-trans-community/).) Surveys of college students found that 13% (Table 3 in [Person _et al._](/papers/person_et_al-gender_differences_in_sexual_behaviors.pdf)) or 5.6% (Table 5 in the replication [Hsu _et al._](/papers/hsu_et_al-gender_differences_in_sexual_fantasy.pdf)) of males have fantasized about being the opposite sex in the last 3 months. + +What happens when every sensitive bookish male who thinks [it might be cool to be a woman](https://xkcd.com/535/) gets subjected to this aggressive recruitment campaign? -Points to work in— -* Superhappies empathic inference for not wanting to believe girls were different -https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qCsxiojX7BSLuuBgQ/the-super-happy-people-3-8 -* empathic inference: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/NLMo5FZWFFq652MNe/sympathetic-minds -https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Zkzzjg3h7hW5Z36hK/humans-in-funny-suits -https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9fpWoXpNv83BAHJdc/the-comedy-of-behaviorism -* "The Opposite Sex" https://web.archive.org/web/20130216025508/http://lesswrong.com/lw/rp/the_opposite_sex/ -* EY was right about "men need to think about themselves _as men_" (find cite) -* Vassar slapping me down -* "Mr. Davis" -* Faster Than Science, Transgender Edition (prior draft) -* "I often wish some men/women would appreciate" -* study evidence that this is actually common * AGPs dating each other is the analogue of "Failed Utopia 4-2"!!—the guys in "Conservative Men in Conservative Dresses" are doing better in some ways. Tri-S was explicitly not for transsexuals > The vast majority of men are not what the vast majority of women would most prefer, or vice versa. I don’t know if anyone has ever actually done this study, but I bet that both gay and lesbian couples are happier on average with their relationship than heterosexual couples. (Googles… yep, looks like it.) -* Amy Alkon song + +Anne Lawrence described autogynephiles as ["men who love women and want to become what they love."](/papers/lawrence-becoming_what_we_love.pdf) But it's worse than that. We're men who love what we _wish_ women were, and want to become _that_. + +* EY was right about "men need to think about themselves _as men_" (find cite) + +* Superhappies empathic inference for not wanting to believe girls were different +https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/qCsxiojX7BSLuuBgQ/the-super-happy-people-3-8 + +[TODO: my pseudobisexual moments (it's California in the year 2015) +our analogues would make a good couple in a nearby alternate universe where at least one of us is female. "Exactly one," he said. "It's California in the year 2015," I said.] + +https://fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/ + +"people who have sexual fetishes that can't possibly be realized using existing technology [...] like the guy who gets on by entropy decreasing in a closed system" +https://qwantz.com/index.php?comic=1049 + +* If I want to stay aligned with women, then figuring out how to do that depends on the facts about actual sex differences; if I want to do the value-exchange suggested in + +Normal straight men also have positive-valence thoughts about women when they're not immediately horny. + +NYT hit piece https://archive.is/0Ghdl + +------ + +no safe defense https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/wustx45CPL5rZenuo/no-safe-defense-not-even-science + * finding things in the refrigerator https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/pL3To6G42AeihNtaN/rational-vs-scientific-ev-psych * https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/FBgozHEv7J72NCEPB/my-way https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xsyG7PkMekHud2DMK/of-gender-and-rationality * make sure the late-onset/AGP terminology is introduced in a coherent order rather than being inserted willy-nilly * the message length of my existence (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/mB95aqTSJLNR9YyjH/message-length) http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2019/10/hobbyhorse-apology/ [TODO: "expecting women to be defective men"] -* aren't all those transwomen going to be _embarrrassed_ after the Singularity, when telepathy tech makes everything obvious * stress fracture vs. sprain: psychology is more complicated, but the basic moral holds * "I don't care" "It sounds like you do care" * pronouns do have truth conditions * The text of this blog post is not something a woman could have written -* wipe culturally defined values: https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/BkkwXtaTf5LvbA6HB/moral-error-and-moral-disagreement (this might have to go after Failed-Utopia #4-2) -* https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LRKXuxLrnxx3nSESv/should-ethicists-be-inside-or-outside-a-profession "Anyone who gives a part of themselves to a profession discovers a sense of beauty in it." same thing with an ideology; http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2017/03/dreaming-of-political-bayescraft/ -http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2017/03/brand-rust/ -* the moment in October 2016 when I switched sides http://zackmdavis.net/blog/2016/10/late-onset/ -* detachable -* If I want to stay aligned with women, then figuring out how to do that depends on the facts about actual sex differences; if I want to do the value-exchange suggested in -* The wall! That goddamned wall! + + * The lie will rot, maybe ppl will be honest after the convention has set in?? https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/r3NHPD3dLFNk9QE2Y/search-versus-design-1 @@ -73,29 +93,15 @@ https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/JBFHzfPkXHB2XfDGj/evolution-of-modularity "Prenatal testosterone exposure is related to sexually dimorphic facial morphology in adulthood" https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2015.1351 -> _Look in the mirror -> What's a white guy doing there? -> I'm just a spirit -> I'm just a spirit -> Floting in air, floating in air, floating in air!_ - the [Sara Bareilles tune I chose as the breakup song](https://genius.com/Sara-bareilles-gonna-get-over-you-lyrics) is probably etched deeper into my auditory cortex than my mother's voice ------ + if my only choices of reading material are radfems who think I'm awful and trans activists who think I DON'T EXIST (!?!?!!?!), I actually feel better about the radfems -Outline for remaining Coda— - * you can doubt someone's theory without doubting their report-as-data - * what "as a first approximation" means in causal graphs - * people have a political incentive to deny, but I'm making a fact-claim - * I would have expected the "rationalists" to be interested in getting the right answer (quote the "20% of the ones with penises" Facebook post), but it doesn't look like that's happening +----- people colluding to maintain a thin layer of social constructions; lies to cis people [sympathetic minds gay couples anecdote] -Anne Lawrence described autogynephiles as ["men who love women and want to become what they love."](/papers/lawrence-becoming_what_we_love.pdf) But it's worse than that. We're men who love what we _wish_ women were, and want to become _that_. - -[I have seen the destiny of my neurotype, and am putting forth a convulsive effort to wrench it off its path. My weapon is clear writing.](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/i8q4vXestDkGTFwsc/human-evil-and-muddled-thinking) - ----- @@ -143,8 +149,6 @@ because the standard narrative was that that's up through 2016 I was grappling with these issues, -I'm weird, but I'm not _that_ weird. - about gender identity being discordant from sex assigned at birth, which was clearly not what my thing was. @@ -255,7 +259,6 @@ You might ask, what do I mean by "as a first approximation"? /2018/Jan/dont-negotiate-with-terrorist-memeplexes/#a-thing-about-me -_You have to let me show you what you are_. > The absolute inadequacy of every single institution in the civilization of magical Britain is what happened! You cannot comprehend it, boy! I cannot comprehend it! It has to be seen and even then it cannot be believed! http://www.hpmor.com/chapter/108 @@ -271,10 +274,6 @@ The level above "Many-worlds is obviously correct, stop being stupid" is "Racial https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/03/24/guided-by-the-beauty-of-our-weapons/ -my pseudobisexual moments (it's California in the year 2015) - -our analogues would make a good couple in a nearby alternate universe where at least one of us is female. "Exactly one," he said. "It's California in the year 2015," I said. - @@ -284,7 +283,9 @@ But in the _process_ of trying to _talk about_ this late-onset-gender-dysphoria- [dark side epistemology, what the math actually means in the real world from "Reply to Holden"] -(Picture me playing Hermione Granger in a post-Singularity [holonovel](https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Holo-novel_program) adaptation of _Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality_ (Emma Watson having charged me [the standard licensing fee](/2019/Dec/comp/) to use a copy of her body for the occasion): "[We can do anything if we](https://www.hpmor.com/chapter/30) exert arbitrarily large amounts of [interpretive labor](https://acesounderglass.com/2015/06/09/interpretive-labor/)!") + + + This is the eye of the hurricane; this is the only way I can [protect](/2019/Jul/the-source-of-our-power/) @@ -294,15 +295,11 @@ cosplay— /2017/Oct/a-leaf-in-the-crosswind/ /2016/Dec/joined/ -It Might Be Cool https://xkcd.com/535/ -even after taking into account that the phrase "once you know what to look for" is a 20-meter fire-truck-red flag for [confirmation bias](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rmAbiEKQDpDnZzcRf/positive-bias-look-into-the-dark). +even after taking into account that the phrase "once you know what to look for" is a 20-meter fire-truck-red flag for [confirmation bias](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/rmAbiEKQDpDnZzcRf/positive-bias-look-into-the-dark). -If I sound angry, it's because I actually do feel a lot of anger, but I wish I knew how to more reliably convey its target. A trans woman I know thinks I'm suffering from false consciousness, that my pious appeals to Objectivity and Reason are [just a facade](https://sinceriously.fyi/false-faces/) concealing my collaboration with a cissexist social order via scapegoating instincts: "I'm one of the good compliant ones—not one of those weird bad trans people who will demand their rights! _They're_ the witches, not me; burn them, not me!" -I have [no grounds to fault her for not taking my self-report as unquestionable](/2016/Sep/psychology-is-about-invalidating-peoples-identities/), but I still think she's reading me wrong. -[agree that scapegoating is real] complicit with cissexism: /2017/Mar/interlude-ii/ @@ -326,7 +323,7 @@ Perhaps so. But back in 2009, **we did not anticipate that _whether or not I sho **To be fair, it's not obvious that I _shouldn't_ cut my dick off!** -I don't think I'm setting [my price for joining](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/Q8evewZW5SeidLdbA/your-price-for-joining) particularly high here? + [cruelty to ordinary people, optimized to confuse and intimidate people trying to use language to reason about the concept of biological sex] @@ -426,3 +423,22 @@ https://www.overcomingbias.com/2020/12/social-proof-but-of-what.html cooperate with men who cooperate with women Cross-gender identity is a virtually sustained or intermittently occurring wishful fantasy about being a person of the opposite sex.” Freund, K., Steiner, B.W. & Chan, S. Two types of cross-gender identity. Archives of Sexual Behavior, 11, 49–63 (1982). DOI: 10.1007/BF01541365 + +twenty-one month Category War is as long as it took to write the Sequences https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9jF4zbZqz6DydJ5En/the-end-of-sequences + +Reading the things I do, and talking to the people I do, I see this pattern _over and over and over_ again, where non-exclusively-androphilic trans women will, in the right context, describe experiences that _sound_ a lot like mine—having this beautiful pure sacred self-identity thing about the idea of being female, but also, separately, this erotic thing on the same theme—but then _somehow_ manage to interpret the beautiful pure sacred self-identity thing as an inner "gender" and presumed brain-intersex condition, which I just—can't take seriously. (Even before contrasting to the early-onset type, which is what a brain-intersex condition _actually_ looks like.) + +All I've been trying to say is that, _in particular_, the word "woman" is such a noun. + +It _follows logically_ that, in particular, if _N_ := "woman", you can't define the word _woman_ any way you want. Maybe trans women _are_ women! But if you want people to agree to that word usage, you need to be able to _argue_ for why it makes sense; you can't just _define_ it to be true, and this is a _general_ principle of how language works, not something I made up on the spot in order to stigmatize trans people. + +> Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 10:04 PM +> So Katie and Seanan did end up coming over last night, but I wasn't very fun to be around because I was emotionally floored because Michael Vassar (!) said that something I said in an _Overcoming Bias_ comment thread was really creepy and that his first reaction was that I should be banned. And I remember lying in bed last night or this morning feeling sick about it, and trying to think about something not thematic, so that I could relax--and I couldn't think of anything. + +> But Vassar had a point, and I apologized, and I feel better now. + +> So I am broken and I have made terrible mistakes, but in my rationalist's splendor, all I can do is try to understand the facts of the matter and do better tomorrow. This, even as in my rationalist's splendor, I must predict that this is unlikely to actually work. + +> Michael fucking Vassar. Shit! + +I'm worried about the failure mode where bright young minds [lured in](http://benjaminrosshoffman.com/construction-beacons/) by the beautiful propaganda about _systematically correct reasoning_, are instead recruited into what is, effectively, the Eliezer-Yudkowsky-and-Scott-Alexander fan club. \ No newline at end of file