From context, it seems like the idea was targeted at men who disdain women as a mysterious Other—but the same moral applies to men who are in ideologically-motivated denial about how male-typical they are, and whether this has implications. [At the time, I certainly didn't want to think of myself _as a man_.](https://www.greaterwrong.com/posts/FBgozHEv7J72NCEPB/my-way#comment-7ZwECTPFTLBpytj7b) And yet ...
-For example. When I read things from the [systematizing–empathizing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathising%E2%80%93systemising_theory)/"men are interested in things, women are interested in people" line of research—which, to be clear that you know that I know, is [only a mere statistical difference at a mere Cohen's _d_ ≈ 0.93](http://unremediatedgender.space/papers/su_et_al-men_and_things_women_and_people.pdf), not an absolute like genitals or chromosomes—my instinctive reaction is, "But, but, that's not _fair_. People _are_ systems, because _everything_ is a system. [What kind of a lame power is empathy, anyway?](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway)"
+For example. When I read things from the [systematizing–empathizing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empathising%E2%80%93systemising_theory)/"men are interested in things, women are interested in people" line of research—which, to be clear that you know that I know, is [only a mere statistical difference at a mere Cohen's _d_ ≈ 0.93](/papers/su_et_al-men_and_things_women_and_people.pdf), not an absolute like genitals or chromosomes—my instinctive reaction is, "But, but, that's not _fair_. People _are_ systems, because _everything_ is a system. [What kind of a lame power is empathy, anyway?](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WhatKindOfLamePowerIsHeartAnyway)"
[But the map is not the territory](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/np3tP49caG4uFLRbS/the-quotation-is-not-the-referent). We don't have unmediated access to reality beyond [the Veil of Maya](https://web.archive.org/web/20020606121040/http://singinst.org/GISAI/mind/consensus.html); system-ness in the empathizing/systematizing sense is a feature of our _models_ of the world, not the world itself.
[TODO: elaborate on how 2007!Yudkowsky and 2021!Xu are saying the opposite things if you just take a plain-language reading and consider, not whether individual sentences can be interpreted as "true", but what kind of _optimization_ the text is doing to the behavior of receptive readers]
-
I don't, actually, expect people to spontaneously blurt out everything they believe to be true, that Stalin would find offensive. "No comment" would be fine. Even selective argumentation that's _clearly labeled as such_ would be fine. (There's no shame in being an honest specialist who says, "I've mostly thought about these issues though the lens of ideology _X_, and therefore can't claim to be comprehensive; if you want other perspectives, you'll have to read other authors and think it through for yourself.")
What's _not_ fine is selective argumentation while claiming "confidence in [your] own ability to independently invent everything important that would be on the other side of the filter and check it [yourself] before speaking" when you _very obviously have done no such thing_.
[TODO:
Is this the hill _he_ wants to die on? If the world is ending either way, wouldn't it be more dignified for him to die _without_ Stalin's dick in his mouth?
+> The Kiritsugu shrugged. "When I have no reason left to do anything, I am someone who tells the truth."
+https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/4pov2tL6SEC23wrkq/epilogue-atonement-8-8
+
* Maybe not? If "dignity" is a term of art for log-odds of survival, maybe self-censoring to maintain influence over what big state-backed corporations are doing is "dignified" in that sense
]
You can, of course, make up any number of sensible [Watsonian](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist) rationales for this. (For example, a world with much smarter people is more "volatile"; with more ways to convert knowledge into danger, maybe you _need_ more censorship just to hold Society together.)
-I'm more preoccupied by a [Doylistic](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist) interpretation—that dath ilan's obsessive secret-keeping reflects something deep about how the Yudkowsky of the current year relates to information, in contrast to the Yudkowsky who wrote the Sequences. The Sequences had encouraged you—yes, _you_, the reader—to be as rational as possible. In contrast, the dath ilan mythos seems to portray advanced rationality as dangerous knowledge that people need to be protected from.
+I'm more preoccupied by a [Doylistic](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WatsonianVersusDoylist) interpretation—that dath ilan's obsessive secret-keeping reflects something deep about how the Yudkowsky of the current year relates to Speech and Information, in contrast to the Yudkowsky who wrote the Sequences. The Sequences had encouraged you—yes, _you_, the reader—to be as rational as possible. In contrast, the dath ilan mythos seems to portray advanced rationality as dangerous knowledge that people need to be protected from. ["The universe is not so dark a place that everyone needs to become a Keeper to ensure the species's survival,"](https://glowfic.com/replies/1861879#reply-1861879) we're told. "Just dark enough that some people ought to."
Someone at the 2021 Event Horizon Independence Day party had told me that I had been misinterpreting the "Speak the truth, even if your voice trembles" slogan from the Sequences. I had interpreted the slogan as suggesting the importance of speaking the truth _to other people_ (which I think is what "speaking" is usually about), but my interlocutor said it was about, for example, being able to speak the truth aloud in your own bedroom, to yourself. I think some textual evidence for my interpretation can be found in Daria's ending to ["A Fable of Science and Politics"](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/6hfGNLf4Hg5DXqJCF/a-fable-of-science-and-politics):
Notwithstanding that Rittaen can be Watsonianly assumed to have detailed neurology skills that the author Doylistically doesn't know how to write, I am entirely unimpressed by the assertion that this idea is somehow _dangerous_, a secret that only Keepers can bear, rather than something _Merrin herself should be clued into_. We're told that "[i]t's not [Rittaen's] place to meddle just because he knows Merrin better than Merrin does"—reflecting an attitude that revealing information is _meddling_, rather than talking being a free action.
-[ TODO—
- * I think there's even a part (find it) where the Keeper says it's nice that they live in a world where not everyone has to be a Keeper just for the world to survive, portraying rationality, knowledge as a burden
-]
-
As another notable example of dath ilan hiding information for the alleged greater good, in Golarion, Keltham discovers that he's a sexual sadist, and deduces that Civilization has deliberately prevented him from realizing this, because there aren't enough corresponding masochists to go around. Having concepts for "sadism" and "masochism" as variations in human psychology would make sadists like Keltham sad about the desirable sexual experiences they'll never get to have, so Civilization arranges for them to _not be exposed to knowledge that would make them sad_.
It did not escape my notice that when "rationalist" authorities _in real life_ considered public knowledge of some paraphilia to be an infohazard (ostensibly for the benefit of people with that paraphilia), I _didn't take it lying down_.
marked TODO blocks—
-- "Agreeing with Stalin" recap intro [pt. 5]
- social justice and defying threats [pt. 5]
+- Jessica's experience at MIRI and CfAR [pt. 5]
_ last email and not bothering him [pt. 5]
+_ "Unnatural Categories Are Optimized for Deception" [pt. 4]
_ the Death With Dignity era [pt. 5]
_ scuffle on "Yes Requires the Possibility" [pt. 4]
_ confronting Olivia [pt. 2]
_ plan to reach out to Rick [pt. 4]
_ complicity and friendship [pt. 4]
_ pandemic starts [pt. 4]
-_ autogenderphilia is common [pt. 4]
_ out of patience email [pt. 4]
-_ "Unnatural Categories Are Optimized for Deception" [pt. 4]
+_ the hill he wants to die on [pt. 5]
_ recap of crimes, cont'd [pt. 5]
_ lead-in to Sept. 2021 Twitter altercation [pt. 5]
-_ Jessica's experience at MIRI and CfAR [pt. 5]
_ regrets, wasted time, conclusion [pt. 5]
-_ include Wilhelm "Gender Czar" conversation? [pt. 2]
+- "Agreeing with Stalin" recap intro [pt. 5]
not even blocked—
_ Re: on legitimacy and the entrepreneur; or, continuing the attempt to spread my sociopathic awakening onto Scott [pt. 2 somewhere]
_ running away to Burlingame; Hamilton tickets
+_ I wish Richard Feynman was trans
+_ "Even our pollution is beneficial"
+_ include Wilhelm "Gender Czar" conversation? [pt. 2]
bigger blocks—
_ dath ilan and Eliezerfic fight
_ reaction to Ziz
-
New (bad) time estimate:
35 smaller TODO blocks × 3/day = 12 days
7 bigger blocks × day/2.5 = 17.5 days
= gapless draft on 17 February??
+
it was actually "wander onto the AGI mailing list wanting to build a really big semantic net" (https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/9HGR5qatMGoz4GhKj/above-average-ai-scientists)
With internet available—
-✓ tag about not everyone having to be a Keeper just for the world to survive
-✓ higher levels of coordination AMA
-✓ "wakes up in the world" link to _isekai_
-✓ "hurting people is wrong" and "for no laid course prepare"
-✓ "Human Evil and Muddled Thinking"
-✓ my "swimming to shore" comment
-✓ Jessica's memoirs
-✓ the recent MIRI dialogues
-✓ "war criminal defense" dunk
-- Sequences post making fun of "just make a really big neural net"
-✓ DeepMind June 2022 Twitter archive?
-✓ January 2021 Capitol riot
-✓ No Fire Alarm
-
+_ love to know some positive integer number of plans
_ "not hard to find": link to more /r/itsafetish-like anecdotes
_ compile ancillary KP doctor's notes page and linky
_ go back and read all the masochism tags: https://www.glowfic.com/replies/search?board_id=&author_id=366&template_id=&character_id=&subj_content=masochism&sort=created_old&condensed=on&commit=Search
_ Yudkowsky's LW moderation policy
far editing tier—
+_ incoprorate "downvote Eliezer in their head" remark from Jessica's memoir
_ explain the "if the world were at stake" Sword of Good reference better
_ D. also acknowledged AGP
_ "no one else would have spoken" should have been a call-to-action to read more widely
_ better introduction of S.K.
_ risk of people bouncing off progressivism
_ an AGP teen boy could at least consent to transition, and make plans based on knowing what the thing is (you'd actually want to go through a little bit of male puberty)
+_ better explanation of Scott's jailbreaking accusation against Vassar
+_ archive.is karma history for Jessica's post
_ "tossed in a bucket" is ignoring advice from Sept. 2022 clarification to be clear about the type distinction
_ explicitly explain "Hill of Validity" title inversion
_ figure out full timeline of which of my Less Wrong posts to mention
https://www.glowfic.com/replies/1735044#reply-1735044
> my suspicion is that not many sadists in dath ilan know what they are and Civilization tries to prevent us from finding out, because dath ilan does not have masochists.
+
+https://www.truthdig.com/dig/nick-bostrom-longtermism-and-the-eternal-return-of-eugenics/
projects / Ultimately_Untrue_Thought.git / commitdiff