From c876366930776b2471fc2d998d1ad3e5904fbd5e Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: "Zack M. Davis" Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2023 14:02:05 -0700 Subject: [PATCH] memoir: slim down the "nobody stays here by faking reality" quote --- content/drafts/standing-under-the-same-sky.md | 18 +++++------------- 1 file changed, 5 insertions(+), 13 deletions(-) diff --git a/content/drafts/standing-under-the-same-sky.md b/content/drafts/standing-under-the-same-sky.md index b182afa..ed581d8 100644 --- a/content/drafts/standing-under-the-same-sky.md +++ b/content/drafts/standing-under-the-same-sky.md @@ -673,23 +673,15 @@ But those communities didn't call themselves _rationalists_, weren't _pretending "[The eleventh virtue is scholarship. Study many sciences and absorb their power as your own](https://www.yudkowsky.net/rational/virtues) ... unless a prediction market says that would make you less happy," just didn't have the same ring to it. Neither did "The first virtue is curiosity. A burning itch to know is higher than a solemn vow to pursue truth. But higher than both of those, is trusting your Society's institutions to tell you which kinds of knowledge will make you happy"—even if you stipulated by authorial fiat that your Society's institutions are super-competent, such that they're probably right about the happiness thing. -Attempting to illustrate [the mood I thought dath ilan was missing](https://www.econlib.org/archives/2016/01/the_invisible_t.html), I quoted (with Discord's click-to-reveal spoiler blocks around the more plot-relevant sentences) the scene from _Atlas Shrugged_ where our heroine Dagny expresses a wish to be kept ignorant for the sake of her own happiness, and gets shut down by John Galt—and Dagny _thanks_ him.[^atlas-shrugged-ref] +There's a scene in _Atlas Shrugged_ that I think illustrates [the mood dath ilan is missing](https://www.econlib.org/archives/2016/01/the_invisible_t.html).[^atlas-shrugged-ref] Our heroine Dagny expresses a wish to be kept ignorant for the sake of her own happiness. "Oh, if only I didn't have to hear about it!" she says. "If only I could stay here and never know what they're doing to the railroad, and never learn when it goes!" -> "[...] Oh, if only I didn't have to hear about it! If only I could stay here and never know what they're doing to the railroad, and never learn when it goes!" -> -> "You'll have to hear about it," said Galt; it was that ruthless tone, peculiarly his, which sounded implacable by being simple, devoid of any emotional value, save the quality of respect for facts. "You'll hear the whole course of the last agony of Taggart Transcontinental. You'll hear about every wreck. You'll hear about every discontinued train. You'll hear about every abandoned line. You'll hear about the collapse of the Taggart Bridge. Nobody stays in this valley except by a full, conscious choice based on a full, conscious knowledge of every fact involved in his decision. Nobody stays here by faking reality in any manner whatever." -> -> She looked at him, her head lifted, knowing what chance he was rejecting. She thought that no man of the outer world would have said this to her at this moment—she thought of the world's code that worshipped white lies as an act of mercy—she felt a stab of revulsion against that code, suddenly seeing its full ugliness for the first time [...] she answered quietly, "Thank you. You're right." - -[^atlas-shrugged-ref]: In Part Three, Chapter II, "The Utopia of Greed". - -This (probably predictably) failed to resonate with other server participants, who were baffled why I seemed to be appealing to Ayn Rand's authority. +John Galt isn't having it. "You'll have to hear about it," he says, in "that ruthless tone, peculiarly his, which sounded implacable by being simple, devoid of any emotional value, save the quality of respect for facts", listing the disasters fated to befall the railroad before concluding, "Nobody stays here by faking reality in any manner whatever." -I was actually going for a _reverse_ appeal-to-authority: if _Ayn Rand_ understood that facing reality is virtuous, why didn't the 2020s "rationalists"? Wasn't that undignified? I didn't think the disdain for "Earth people" (again, as if there were any other kind) was justified, when Earth's philosophy of rationality (as exemplified by Ayn Rand or Robert ["Get the Facts"](https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/38764-what-are-the-facts-again-and-again-and-again) Heinlein) was doing better than dath ilan's on this critical dimension. +"Thank you. You're right," Dagny says, noting the contrast of Galt's tough-minded honesty with "the world's code that worshipped white lies as an act of mercy". -But if people's souls had been damaged such that they didn't have the "facing reality is virtuous" gear, it wasn't easy to install the gear by talking at them. +[^atlas-shrugged-ref]: In Part Three, Chapter II, "The Utopia of Greed". -Why was I so sure _my_ gear was correct? +When I quoted this scene in the server, other participants were baffled that I seemed to be appealing to Ayn Rand's authority. I was actually going for a _reverse_ appeal-to-authority: if _Ayn Rand_ understood that facing reality is virtuous, why didn't the 2020s "rationalists"? I didn't think the disdain for "Earth people" was justified, when Earth's philosophy of rationality (as exemplified by Ayn Rand) was doing better than dath ilan's on this critical dimension. I wondered if the issue had to do with what Yudkowsky had [identified as the problem of non-absolute rules](https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/xdwbX9pFEr7Pomaxv/meta-honesty-firming-up-honesty-around-its-edge-cases#5__Counterargument__The_problem_of_non_absolute_rules_), where not-literally-absolute rules like "Don't kill" or "Don't lie" have to be stated _as if_ they were absolutes in order to register to the human motivational system with sufficient force. -- 2.17.1