-**Eliezer** — 12/17/2022 5:50 PM
-you sure are supposed to not get angry at the people who didn't create those political punishments
-that's insane
-they're living in Cheliax and you want them to behave like they're not in Cheliax and get arrested by the Church
-your issue is with Asmodeus. take it to Him, and if you can't take Him down then don't blame others who can't do that either.
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-Admirably explicit! If he were that frank all the time, I wouldn't actually have had a problem with him. (I don't expect people to pay arbitrary costs to defy their political incentives; my problem with the "hill of meaning in defense of validity" and "simplest and best protocol" performances was precisely that they were _pretending not to be political statements_; if we can be clear about the _existence_ of the Asmodean elephant in the room listening to everything we say, I don't blame anyone for not saying anything else that the elephant would report to its superiors.)
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-[TODO: still having trouble with how I want to summarize this part of the conversation?! maybe looking at the record of exactly how I ended up voicing my full greviance will unlock my memory-reconstruction and unblock the writing here
- * Yudkowsky says Planecrash is the tragedy of Keltham out of dath ilan, wrongfully trusting Cheliax
- * Arete says that the moral here isn't that you should truthseek
- * I said that's not what the story was _about_, just an aspect of the story
- * Yudkowsky says the standards are very high, comparison to SneerClub quoting Draco on rape, but leaving out Harry's reaction to support the politicized story they want to tell; that's tantamount to lying.
- * Indeed, I agree that leaving out details that would undermine the politicized story you want to tell is tantamount to lying!! That's why I'm mad at him!
- * other commenters pick up on "But you're still saying to trust awesome institutions"
- * Yudkowsky could say "But my narrow point about pronouns was correct", but I'm suspicious that the "real" goal was political. I could say "But my narrow point about dath ilan's secrecy was correct", but Yudkowsky is suspicious that the "real" goal was political ... and we're both right??
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+> **Eliezer** — 12/17/2022 5:50 PM
+> you sure are supposed to not get angry at the people who didn't create those political punishments
+> that's insane
+> they're living in Cheliax and you want them to behave like they're not in Cheliax and get arrested by the Church
+> your issue is with Asmodeus. take it to Him, and if you can't take Him down then don't blame others who can't do that either.